I am back from my travels to Minnesota and had a Grand Old Time with the Grand Old Party! Even seeing the black clad America hating anarchist degenerates in the streets of St. Paul was worth some laughs. They are just like those South County NIMBYs who blindly drink the socialist Kool-Aid of fear, hate, and loathing of capitalism and success. The only real differences being the brainwashed NIMBYs of South County are older, dress a little nicer, shower a little more often, and for some bizarre reason register "Republican".
Here is a report from my field trip to the North Star State on our airports versus their airports. The Minneapolis St. Paul International Airport has striking similarities with the currently idle El Toro International Airport. It too has fuel saving crossed runways pointing the planes to where they need to go. It consists of a 11,000 footer, a 10,000 footer, and two 8,000 footers. Compare this with El Toro International Airport having two 10,000 footers and two 8,000 footers. Would you also believe the Air Force Reserve and Air National Guard share the field? You see folks military and civilian jets can exist in perfect harmony! We can have perfect harmony at El Toro International Airport as well!
Next we check out the St. Paul Airport in downtown St. Paul. It is very similar to John Wayne Airport. Its longest runway is a mere 6400 feet, or only 700 feet longer than John Wayne Airport. It also has two smaller runways to complement it. St. Paul is a general aviation airport, while the Minneapolis St. Paul International Airport handles all the commercial passenger and cargo flights for the Minneapolis St. Paul area. That is how it should be in Orange County as well! Its petty simple folks; jets belong at big airports, not little airports!
Also, both Metropolitan Statistical Areas have roughly the same population. Orange County has about 3.0 million residents whereas Minneapolis St. Paul has about 3.2 million residents.
Can you imagine if some socialist thugs and Lennar got their hands on the massive Minneapolis St. Paul International Airport and tried to make some so called Great Park and housing development out of it? All while simultaneously trying to cram jumbo jets and small planes onto a tiny airfield with a tiny runway at downtown St. Paul airport.
It is a good thing that Minneapolis is not economically retarded like (South) Orange County is. The Minneapolis St. Paul region benefits tremendously from having adequate air transportation services. They get to host national conventions such as the RNC, and are home to four professional sports teams! In the meantime Orange County will never have a major political convention and languishes with a mere 2 professional sports teams due to our lack of adequate transportation infrastructure.
Orange County has the potential to become an international powerhouse. El Toro International Airport is just the economic catalyst to make it happen. We are only held back from realizing our full potential due to the decade plus of irrational fear and hatred spread throughout South County by the Agranistas.
Speaking of which, I found a Great Pork "Benchmark Report" in my mailbox showcasing their illustrious concert "schedule". They are a day late and a dollar short as usual. Most of those concerts have already happened!
Isn't it quite obvious that they are not delivering the park they duped the gullible voters into. Not even the mere 27 acre "preview park" is done right. Sending out a concert schedule after the fact is laughable and just one more screwup of many associated with The Great Pork.
Virtually all the money raised for the Great Pork goes into "advertising" or "planning" versus actual construction or even timely announcements. The people of Orange County have seen they have been scammed and are entitled to another vote on El Toro. Then Orange County can become an international powerhouse and finally live up to its full potential.
52 comments:
There is no airport in El Toro, this is just a lie spread by the bitter angry left. The park is coming, it's just a little dark right now. Turn on the lights, Vernon!
And yet another steaming pile of NIMBY Bull Sh##. There is no reality, move along.
So Vernon, why not leave your horrible, tragic life, living under a a long established flight path and move to the promised land of Minneapolis?
I don't suppose it EVER occurred to you that most of us don't give a big rats ass if we ever have a convention here or not. And in case you haven't noticed, Orange County IS and international powerhouse. Also, having two professional teams playing here is a lot more than most other areas in the country have. OH MY GOD, WE'RE LANGUISHING WITH ONLY TWO TEAMS, WHAT ARE WE GONG TO DO?
What is that strange odor? Vern/Don, do you need to change your Depends?
Vern;
I guess living in NIMBY Beach under the jets has scrambled your brain. For all your right wing Republican rhetoric, you continually ignore one (well actually many, but I don’t have time to write a 500-600 pages to point them all out to you) indisputable fact; El Toro is now private property. Lennar is as capitalist an organization as you will find anywhere, and they have determined that the best and highest use for THEIR land is The Great Park.
As you so frequently spout off, aren’t protection of private property and free market economy two of the guiding tenets of the GOP? The public had their chance to vote on El Toro four different times, and when they finally understood what damage an El Toro airport would do al ALL Orange County they wisely decided move in another direction. As private property, the public has no vote in how Lennar develops their land. Heavy handed government intervention to force a change just sounds so………socialist.
Vern, just pour yourself another martini and keep spouting your nonsense. Funny how you NIMBY Beach types love to shout free enterprise, yet do a complete 180 when the subject of El Toro comes up. Sounds RINO to me. So continue to wallow in your own irony, and be sure to check for Commies under your bed before you go to sleep. Turn out the lights Vern, your party is over.
8:30, Very nicely done! As many have tried to do, Vern/Don just refused to accept how things work in a democracy. He still seems to think that the minority in NIMBY Beach should trump the majority in the rest of Orange County. He also seems to forget that the SNA has been at it's present location since at least 1940 and just up the road from their since around 1920.
Ahh, but then he says SNA wasn't designed for jets. Uh-huh, and how many airports have been designed for jets? El Toro wasn't, either.
He's just an old, angry man with too much time on his hands and a silly dream that Irvine will come to his dark side and decide to open El Toro.
Isn't dementia sad?
Dear 830AM,
the free market was NOT allowed to work with El Toro. Los Angeles World Airports offered the Navy TWO BILLION DOLLARS just to lease El Toro. Not to mention ANOTHER 300 MILLION for cleanup costs!
Due to oppressive zoning restrictions on El Toro by the socialist government in Irvine, this had the effect of grossly limiting the true value of the land.
Lennar paid a mere 650 million or maybe THIRTY PERCENT of what Los Angeles offered the Navy. And Lennar is still losing money hand over fist!
Because Lennar got the land for pennies on the dollar, this has cost taxpayers billions of dollars of unrealized revenue.
Today the Navy is stuck trying to cleanup El Toro to "residential" standards. Not to mention the costs of relocating The evicted United States Marine Corps to Miramar. Who foots the bill? We the taxpayers! That's who! Irvine Socialists like it that way.
Besides the waste of our tax dollars, we also pay for El Toro sitting idle with higher air fares locally, or pay $4 a gallon in thick traffic to use outlying airports.
The Free Market would have allowed a 10 billion dollar aviation asset to be bid on with NO RESTRICTIONS! Who would win that auction? Los Angeles or Lennar? Me thinks the former!
Dear 1229,
El Toro International Airport was indeed designed for JETS! The United States Marine Corps was not exactly flying orange balloons out of El Toro. The JETS were flying out of El Toro long before your NIMBY city was even incorporated and long before the Agrinstas brainwashed you with irrational fear and hatred of El Toro.
Vernon, you ignorant ass, I live in CDM, not your much hated Irvine. When El Toro was built the U.S. Military had not one single jet aircraft in their inventory. Now we all know you don't give a big rats ass about facts, but that is one. The Marines didn't get any jets until the 1950's and Korea. The primary planes flying at El Toro were SNJ trainers and F4U Corsairs.
Also, another little lie of yours is that the Marines were kicked out of El Toro, they were not, they wanted to move to Miramar and combine El Toro and Tustin. Tustin was a financial drain on the Marines as maintaining the blimp hangers was extremely expensive but they couldn't tear them down.
Before you write your patented B.S. you really should do some homework, or at least admit that you are an ass that lacks any compassion for your fellow man (such as those in south county, that you care not one iota about). The vast majority of OC voters have voted down an airport. It's a done deal, will never happen. The LAX deal was underhanded and the GOOD citizens made sure to shut the door in that too.
Have another drink of your Kool Aid, Vern, and please change your diaper!
Reactionary opponents of El Toro International Airport continue to pollute this web site while the airport that everybody can see sits idle. Some people go to those Great Park concerts, sit on the ground, and soak up poison from the base left by the Marines, but which won't interfere with operation of the airport. The airport was approved by the FAA for 4 million annual passengers, but we can squeeze in 16 MAP. Nobody is in the noise zone. Turn on the lights, Vernon.
718PM scribbles "The Marines did not get any jets until the 1950s."
Hey kiddo that was still well before these NIMBYs cities were even created! The runways were also LENGTHENED to handle the jets.
The NIMBYs complaints against retaining El Toro International Airport are completely groundless and without merit.
Hey kiddo, you ass, Orange County Airport was also well established well before anybody lived right under it. Everybody that lived in Newport with half a brain knew in the 1950's that either SNA or Fullerton would become a major airport, and yet, with head firmly planted up ass, still bought homes right under both of them, then had the gall to complain about the noise. Perhaps it's time to pull your head's out and smell the fresh air, El Toro is dead and JWA is being expanded.
John Wayne Airport may be closed to commercial jets by the time it is expanded. I suppose the JWA terminal can be used to load passengers for El Toro International Airport just as they do it at Dulles International in Washington D.C.
Hey 11:19, how's that Kool Aid you're drinking? You mixing it with a little something left over from the 60's or are you just naturally demented?
Hey 1140, you have failed to deliver a Great Park in six years. Now El Toro International Airport will deliver fully loaded jumbo commercial jet airplanes at El Toro in only 6 months. Turn on the lights, Vernon.
12:26 oh really? Hmmm, I didn't know the city of Irvine and Lenar had decided to open the airport without county approval.
Hey, how's it smell with your head in that dark cavity? Are you ready for some fresh air and a dose of reality?
Lennar and Irvine can do it without county approval. The state will license the airport for 4 million annual passengers. This will ramp up to 16 MAP as time goes by. Anti-El Toro International Airport people should learn how to be nice, but then, I suppose, that is not in their nature.
Good for you Vern, another chapter in the NIMBY Beach Revisionist History of El Toro.
Once again you ignore some inconvenient facts about the closure of El Toro. First and foremost, BRAC closure rules state very clearly that decisions regarding base closures shall be made by the cities nearest to the base (the LOCAL part of the Local Redevelopment Agency, or LRA), and that ALL reuse alternatives shall be explored and ultimately decided by the LRA. Of course the entire process was bastardized forever when your NIMBY Beach hero, King George Argyros, stuck his oily fingers into the process via his paid for dummies, Silva, Smith and Coad. The Navy finally got tired of all the infighting and decided to sell the base to the highest bidder. Capitalism in action.
And as for LAX and their secret plans to hijack the process, they never offered $2 billion to lease the base. Their plan was to have the DOT force the Navy to transfer the land to them, and then have the DOT lease the base to LAWA. LAWA also noted the estimated construction costs of $2.88 billion to build a real airport there (so much for Donald’s “turn on the lights” turnkey airport), but also the need to issue bonds guaranteed by the government to get the entire process up and running. As a Republican, the very thought of government guaranteed, stick it to the taxpayer talk should get your blood boiling. LAWA also noted that this entire scheme would require substantial federal legislation to complete the scheme. Fortunately, someone in then Navy actually looked at a map and noted that LAX was hardly local to El Toro (those darn rules again), and for that matter wasn’t even in the same county as El Toro. Enough of that bad idea.
BTW Vern, I have just reread the entire LAWA memo on the El Toro takeover scheme. Once again, those nasty old facts get are the flies in your ointment.
So keep trying to rewrite the El Toro history books to suit your own fantasies, Vern. Nothing is flying out of the Great Park but sparrows.
Very nice, 2:19, but don't expect any atta boys from old Vern or some of the other idiots on this site. The only facts they believe are the ones created here for our reading enjoyment. Hell, even the Orange County Board of Supervisors have finally realized that any hopes for an airport at El Toro are strictly the little Kool Aid induced dreams of Vern, Don and their dream club.
Isn't it classic that the title banner for this site says "Just the facts about El Toro"?
No atta boys here. Anti-El Toro International Airport reactionaries continue to post the same old rhetoric that were lies then and are lies now. El Toro International Airport is here and it is ready to go. Turn on the lights Vernon.
12:37, Man, reality just seems to burn your ass, doesn't it? Nothing like a few FACTS to just piss you off. Funny how you think facts are lies and your lies are facts. Just like the lies you tried to pass off on the voters, huh?
Hey 219, you are incredibly naive if you think ONLY cities nearest a base have 100% say in how a base is re-used.
At the time Orange County voters first ratified El Toro as an airport the property was UNINCORPORATED. It belonged to the COUNTY. We the county voted for the airport TWICE. Three times if you include North County.
It was Lake Forest and Irvine who hijacked the process. Why should those two insignificant cities have a disproportionate amount of say in the process? The entire region and the entire nation are counting on El Toro to be a REGIONAL AIRPORT. Not some park that maybe a few Irvine residents may use once a year.
Let me show you an example of a base managed the right way. This is the governing board for Williams (AFB) Gateway Airport in Arizona:
* Town of Gilbert
* Gila River Indian Community
* City of Mesa
* Town of Queen Creek
* City of Phoenix
The major city of Phoenix is at least 30 miles away from the airport. The people in Arizona know Phoenix International (like LAX) is overwhelmed and had the common sense to take advantage of a shuttered air base.
The local city Mesa does have a seat at the table, but they are NOT the only city calling the shots. in addition, the State of Arizona has a big chunk of property at the base. Arizona State University has a satellite campus at Williams.
Williams is not all about Mesa, and El Toro should not be all about Irvine. Taxpayers throughout the nation PAID for El Toro. They should have opportunities to fly out of it!
The OC BOS offered Lake Forest and Irvine seats at the table. Instead they stormed off and threw a hissy fit like little kids. Those cities think the tail should wag the dog. SCAG voted 31-2 for El Toro to be part of the region's airport system.
For those of you who have L.A. issues, why are you not in an uproar that they manage Ontario Airport, which just so happens to lie in San Bernardino County. If LAX and Ontario airports are good enough for the NIMBYs of South County to use, then L.A. is clearly good enough to manage El Toro.
Even 2.8 billion dollars to upgrade El Toro is much cheaper than the 4.5 billion dollar estimate to add a second runway to John Wayne Airport. South County NIMBYs want that to happen. So their "worries" about the cost of El Toro are purely disingenuous. We never hear them questioning the 1.5 billion dollar price tag of the Great Pork.
906
Read the BRAC rules then pull your head of of your ass (not necessarily in that order). The entire reuse process was bastardized by Argyros and his flunkies on the BOS. NIMBY Beach is convinced the sun revolves around them, screw the rest of the planet. Hurt having your heads handed to you, didn't it?
Closing El Toro Air Station was a bad brac decision, so now it is El Toro International Airport. The generals did not want to close it. Our very own congressman's wife put it on the list for closure. The arguments were bogus, but then we need the airport. Turn on the lights, Vernon.
Who said closing El Toro was a bad decision? Show me where just one official has said that. Yet another lie on this site, pathetic. Who said the arguments were bogus? Again, show me something official where that is written. You can't because it doesn't exist. It's just the little NIMBY voices in your head.
Fact, the Marines love having both bases combined into one base at Miramar, but I'm sure that little fact slipped you by since you have your head buried someplace it doesn't belong.
There will never be an airport at El Toro, but again, facts just seem to pass you.
734: Our very own congressman's wife put El Toro on the list for closure. The generals didn't want to close it and they didn't want to move to Miramar which is boxed in by high priced homes in La Jolla. The unexpected dividend in closing the base is that now we have El Toro International Airport! Turn on the lights, Vernon.
Again, more of your lies. Who said and when that the Marines didn't want to move to Miramar? All the Marines I know love it.
The unexpected bonus is we will have a world class park, just like Balboa Park in San Diego. Especially since El Toro can never be an airport again. But then, NIMBY's can never accept that they got beat by the rest of Orange County.
Generally airports just bring more development, traffic, and noise to areas. We don't need it, I'm perfectly fine driving to LAX to catch a flight to London.
There may be no airport. But you will NEVER have a world class park like Balboa. Lennar has NO MONEY for it! Wall Street is having a meltdown! Every acre of El Toro will have to be PAVED to recover past losses!
Someday you will have flights to London out of John Wayne. I now support unlimited expansion. I get a buyout and moving expenses. You get stuck in this shithole excuse for a county. But you will have a 30 acre park at El Toro somewhere in this mess.
906 clearly has done some research, something the anti-El Toro International Airport drones would never do. Take a look at that Minneapolis Airport. I suppose they would say that's the double cross. Turn on the lights, Vernon.
956
here are the BRAC rules.
When a base closes, this is the order in which recipients get dibs on the property.
1)Another DOD agency. For example, a National Guard Armory or a housing annex is carved out of a base.
2) A Federal Agency. For example, the F.A.A. has 1000 acres at El Toro.
3)Homeless providers. For example, Tustin MCAS has a few HPs in some barracks.
4)A state agency. For example, Arizona State University at Williams AFB.
5) A county agency or regional airport authority. For example, Phoenix-Williams Gateway Airport.
6) A city. This would place Irvine SIXTH or DEAD LAST in the pecking order for base distribution. When El Toro was closed it was not even within any city limits. So Irvine had no more of an outright claim to it than Brea or Wasilla, Alaska did!
It gets even better. The Air National Guard put in for a DOD transfer of property at El Toro and was denied because Chris Cox hijacked the process. The ANG unit near the OC Fairgrounds ended up relocating to Sacramento because one they were stuck in inadequate facilities, and two they were denied a chance to upgrade to El Toro.
Chris Cox is a chickenhawk shill for developers. He has never served a day in uniform and was too busy guzzling booze at the Delta Tau Delta frat house at USC during the Viet Nam War. (This rowdy frat was eventually booted off campus.) Cox does not give a rat's ass about the troops. He loves war but hates the warriors.
Oh and what a great job Cox is doing managing the SEC these days. Wall Street is only in the midst of a major financial crisis.
Nice research, 955. Clearly this was a bad brac decision, and we knew Cox was a double-crosser when he signed the unconstitutional Measure F petition. I thought it was that he knew how to count votes, but even then there were all the contributions from Latham and Watkins, attorneys for the developers. Feds own enough of El Toro to put three John Wayne Airports there. El Toro land is so polluted they can't build houses there. All Irvine can do is open the airport, which it will do when the facts clearly are spelled out to it. Turn on the lights, Vernon.
Oh my God, now I've heard everything. Now measure F is unconstitutional! Stop the presses! My mom's in the hospital right now and she's a little loopy from the drugs they're giving her. Are you taking the same drugs, because you're more loopy than she is.
El Toro is a dead issue and the good folks in Irvine would never allow blow hards like you to convince them to open an airport in their fair city.
Take some more drugs, NIMBY!
644, you're ignorant. Yes, Measure F is unconstitutional all the way to the Supreme Court. Your gang spent a lot of money on that turkey. Turn on the lights, Vernon.
Yes, then came the bullet proof measure W.
Cry me a river over that one, NIMBY!
Aha, you admit measure f is unconstitutional. You should cry over measure W, too. Now Irvine owns El Toro and there is nothing you can do about it. Irvine and Lennar can open the airport and you NIMBYs can cry and cry. The feds can open 3 airports on the 1800 acres it still owns at El Toro. Go cry a river over that, Julie.
Now the NIMBYs are resorting to bashing the great George Argyros. There they go again with their class envy!
Gosh, how dare a wealthy businessman use HIS own money to put a measure on the ballot; that people actually had the gall to vote for.
According to the haters, only socialist democrat legislators in Sacramento or Irvine should ever place measures on the ballot.
George Argyros has done far more society than most of his socialist critics ever have and ever will!
Arnel employs hundreds of people. How many people do you haters employ?
George Argyors has also donated millions of dollars to Chapman University.
How much money have any of you haters given to charity?
Definitely not more than George Argyros. That's for sure!
In addition, George Argyros has served his country as ambassador to Spain. He deserves credit for enlisting Spain's help for fighting the global war on terror, unlike the cheese eating surrender monkeys in neighboring France.
Last but not least George Argyros recently served his country again in Minnesota as a Republican delegate. This is in contrast to the America haters protesting outside the convention or cursing at their TV.
Twice in this series of postings about Minneapolis and El Toro Airports they attacked George Argyros. He supports El Toro International Airport with campaign contributions. NIMBYs and BANANAs accuse him of being a plutocrat. I believe he is being responsible.
Once again NIMBY Beachers confuse the concept of having money and having class.
You don't even know what a concept is. Turn on the El Toro lights, Vernon. Show the NIMBYs some concepts, class, and money.
Much like you can not grasp the concept that El Toro is dead, buried and ain't never gonna happen. I guess we need the delusional around to let the rest of us know we're still sane.
Turn out the lights Vern, the funeral procession is long past.
Well, Vernon, they didn't get the message by comparing Minneapolis/St. Paul with Orange County. Time to hit them with the brainwashing argument. Nobody wants to admit to that. We all want to trust our sources of information. Yet, they drive by their airport every day, and claim there is no airport there. Turn on the lights, Vernon.
Oh we get it, we just think it's a stupid comparison, but then most of your rantings are stupid. That's because you're stuck on stupid.
I didn't think it was a stupid comparison. Drive around El Toro with the four jumbo-jet ready runways and then you will agree that this is where the big jumbo jet airplanes should be, instead of LAX, San Diego, and Long Beach. El Toro International Airport is the future for Orange County, San Diego and Los Angeles.
Does it hurt to be so stupid? Man, I read your rantings and it gives me a headache so you must be in agony.
Don't you get it, the vast majority of OC residents DON'T WANT AN AIRPORT AT EL TORO! Just exactly what part of that don't you understand?
El Toro is a perfect site for an airport, and the airport that is built there is perfect. Forget about the rest of OC now. It's Irvine that calls the shots, ant we need El Toro International Airport. Turn on the lights, Vernon. Just exactly what part of that don't you understand?
The part that you are in the minority that wants an airport and is stupid enough to believe it will be built. And we don't NEED an airport, a few NIMBY's WANT an airport.
You are correct, Irvine calls the shots and they have said no airport.
There you have it, NIMBY, no airport. Now go back to sleep.
Yes, I am correct when I say Irvine calls the shots. Now if you could find out what Irvine really will do, then you're getting somewhere. Remember, it's more destinations and lower fairs with El Toro International Airport, and nobody's in the noise zone.
You idiot, we all know there is no noise zone and Irvine doesn't want the noise that you want to bestow on them. What an ass you are.
Well, no Irvine doesn't want noise but it has little choice. It's either John Wayne Airport airplanes over Turtle Rock, or it's El Toro International Airport planes over Northwood. Northwood, by the way, has louder ambient noise than heavily loaded airplanes from El Toro. Stop making up storys for Irvine.
Stop making up stories for Newport. Your precious airport at El Toro will never happen, but the caps come off at SNA all too soon.
All airports have a noise zone. Nobody, absolutely nobody, lives in the noise zone of El Toro International Airport. Turn on the lights, Vernon.
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