Airport opponents are incredibly delusional to think that if we commit billions of dollars to supporting so called "high speed" rail, all our transportation problems will magically be solved, and no increase in airport capacity will be necessary. Proponents are so desperate for support that they are even fear mongering the voters with the "global warming" myth to drum up support for the Algore trainwreck from nowhere to nowhere.
Let's get real folks. This boondoggle has very LIMITED destinations. You cannot even take this train outside of California. Want to go to Hawaii, Europe, or even Las Vegas? Fuggedboutit! To get to any of these choice tourist destinations in a timely manner from California, one must fly a JET! Yes! Remember those? However, if you are in a hurry to get from Palmdale to Fresno, then high speed rail might be for you. Seriously, this multi billion dollar project offers too few (worthy) destinations for too much money.
Let's look at other flaws with trains. For instance, if some wino fell asleep on the tracks and was ran over, train service would be shut down for hours while the police investigated and taped off the area! You don't ever hear of winos passing out on runways. And even if they did, a jet could take off right over them! Which brings me to El Toro International Airport. With those 10,000 foot runways, people could travel all over the world! That cannot be said about John Wayne with a mere 5700 foot runway.
Los Angeles Airport Authority with their immense capital reserves could easily afford to retrofit El Toro to become a state of the art facility. This would employ thousands of Orange County residents and pump money into OUR economy! That is what what we should be supporting instead of some boondoggle that will only benefit areas outside of Orange County.
Should prop 1A pass, an Orange County resident would have to travel to L.A. or the Inland Empire to catch the train. How is that an improvement over going out there to catch a flight? That is why El Toro International Airport is the ANSWER to solving Orange County's transportation problems. We already paid for it, we just need to turn on the lights.
Please see www.hjta.org/prop1a
PS check in frequently as we will be reviewing more propositions and candidates!
50 comments:
I'm with you Vernon against the bi-partisan high speed train bond initiative Proposition 1A. Throwing money at public transit never works. People prefer their cars. Rolling public rooms on miles and miles of steel rails is old technology. It appeals to nostalgia buffs, but it is unpopular with those who have to listen to them. El Toro International Airport is the solution to our transportation problem, and nobody is in the noise zone. It will provide 90,000 jobs and $1.5 billion income per year.
Vern/Don, the older you get the more hilarious your bullshit becomes. What a crock of crap you continually dish up. Reading it just makes my day start with a good laugh.
Realities a bitch, Vern, and the reality is El Toro is dead, but you keep writing your crap, the flies need a stinking pile to land on.
Anti-El Toro International Airport NIMBYs are contorted with rage because this website deprives them of news control. Some may even vote for a California High Speed Rail boondoggle.We must use all the weapons at our disposal to re-open the needed El Toro International Airport.
758,
where do you stand on high speed rail? Also, tell us WHY you think El Toro is not a good place for an airport. Or, are you too obsessed with feces and flies to make an intelligent contribution to this fine blog.
I have stated my opinions on the boondoggle of El Toro too many times to waste my time writing it again. You can read past posts if your memory is slipping and you can't recall.
I have also maintained that what Southern California needs (ALL of Southern California) is a huge regional airport like Dallas/Fortworth or Denver or JFk, built somewhere AWAY from high density housing, with high speed rail service to service ALL of Southern California. El Toro is NOT that place.
I am totally against the current rail proposal as I see it as a, well, a boondoggle, as you said. But I do think high speed rail service is in our future. It works wonderfully in Japan and Europe and the good old U.S.A. is supposed to be technologically superior to those areas. So why not here? It is just one more solution to our dependence on foreign oil.
Next question, please.
Well, the anti-El Toro International Airport NIMBY is against Proposition 1A, but he does see high speed rail in our future because they have them in Europe and Japan. He must not live near the right of way. Those trains are acoustical disasters. It's like an airport where the planes never get off the very long runway but roll miles and miles into the future polluting all the way. With underpowered engines, no passing power, and no flexibility, trains are stuck on the tracks, but airplanes can fly anywhere. I am totally in favor of a huge new regional airport at El Toro, like Dallas/Fortworth or JFK. This would be close to high density housing customers, with high speed rail service running right through the airport to all of Southern California, freeways on three sides, and two fuel pipelines in place bringing carbon based fuel to the airplanes from the refinerys. Turn on the lights, Vernon. Start small but do think big.
827, you moron, you left out the part that the fuel pipelines belong to the Department of the Navy and they have steadfastly said "no way" to using them at El Toro.
And just where do you get your information on the noise from high speed rail? Another voice in your head make that up?
And no one really cares what you're in favor of. You build new airports AWAY from homes, not right next to them, idiot!
Donald has never let facts stand in the way of his delusions of an airport at El Toro. It's just the babbling of one very sick fool.
Turn ot the lights Vern, the train is leaving the station.
When the airport opens, the Navy will give its pipeline to Irvine becaue they don't need it anymore without a military base there. The other pipeline is private to San Diego and since Lindbergh Field can't grow anymore, there's plenty of surplus for El Toro. Trains are noisy. Go over to the tracks of the high speed rail passing through Northwood in Irvine. That should convince you they're noisy, and the faster they go, the noisier they are, with those steel wheels rolling on steel rails. We got rid of the train tracks in Newport Beach when automobiles took over. We don't need to build an airport out in the sticks. We already have one here at El Toro, right where the passengers are. Turn on the lights, Vernon.
641, more lies.
Poor NIMBY's keep claiming that SNA is bursting at the seams, however the reality is that commercial travel at the Duke is down 32.9%. Don't you just hate those nasty facts that get in the way of your "re-education" agenda?
439
Before you call somebody a liar you should not lie yourself.
Because your edukashun did not include research; I will give you a hint.
If you go to the Stats page on the JWA website they give you a stats page for each month reported so far. This took me 10 seconds.
The last month reported was Sept and the first row is the passenger stats that tell you that the count is down 12.2% from the same month last year. The year to date change is -9.3 which is the average.
In case you haven't noticed we are in a recession. So things are down right now but as we say in statistics: two data points do not a trend make.
Don't be lazy do your homework.
Advertising for Proposition 1A says high speed rail will stop global warming. I say El Toro International Airport will stop global warming. Who are you going to believe, the 1A people or me? John Wayne Airport is bursting at the seams, and nobody is in those airplanes if you listen to an anti-El Toro NIMBY. Thanks, flyingmythbuster, for calling a liar a liar. Full speed ahead on re-education, Vernon.
Donald, i wouldn't believe you if you told me the sky was blue.
Re-educate yourself, El Toro is deader than Latin and the Holy Roman Empire combined. The most pathetic part of the entire El Toro "debate" is that NIMBY Beach came to believe its own lies.
Turn out the lights Vern, it ain't gonna happen.
Everybody believes in something sometime. El Toro International Airport is crying for airplanes. We must re-educate reactionary NIMBYs so they no longer post hate in English. Latin is the basis of our language. Please welcome, 1009, your turnkey El Toro International Airport. Turn on the lights, Vernon, it's all gonna happen soon.
Alright Donald, translate "Turn on th lights" into Latin for us and you may have something. I'll bet you'd look cute in a toga.
Turn out the lights Vern, dead languages, dead airports and brain dead Newport NIMBY's are all equally useless.
1007 it is the Great Pork that is more dead than any of aforementioned.
Yes, 1151, everyone believes in something. Vern/Donald believes he'll have another drink of Newport NIMBY Kool Aid to keep his head in the clouds.
641, you truly are a moron. There are no high speed trains in Irvine or any other part of California. More lies from the Newport NIMBY left.
The trains are high speed through Camp Pendleton. They have to slow down for the stations in Irvine, Santa Ana, and other bergs. Turn on the lights, Vernon. Airplanes are really high speed trains. No milk runs for them.
Sorry, 723, you idiot, California has no high speed trains. Do your homework or shut up. Actually, just shut up, nobody wants to hear your blather.
Do you want them to go high speed through Irvine, too? They might run over some hobo sleeping on the tracks. Proposition 1A clearly is a train wreck. Vote NO on 1A.
611, you're a train wreck. I vote no on you.
Vote No on 1A. Stop bi-partisan pork.
One of the things about life is the law of unintended consequences. It always operates like the laws of physics.
If some of you have looked at the proposal; you will see that OC has been turned into a spur. That means that it will be done last after SF-LA-SD. The reason for this is simple. South county has rejected Fed-EX, UPS, a jail and now is in the process of rejecting the USPS, all mass employers, and of course, the airport. Transit planners hate bedroom communities because they do not generate enough return traffic to justify contra-flow movements which increase equipement utilization. So OC gets the service that is the normal pattern for markets of this type. Which is mostly one-way movements toward the city in the morning, out in the evening, with sporadic service during the day. The vehicule utilization is around 5 to 1 peak to off-peak as opposed to 3 to 1 for systems that have two way traffic. Another cost is that large storage yards need to be built near the terminal points on both ends.
The planners for the high speed rail have noticed this and have deviated from the more direct route to San Diego for places that are accepting these employment centers.
So OC has dealt itself off the grid.
So the class war by South OC was a phoney war as exemplified by this statement, "They said the airfield would only worsen Orange County’s imbalance in its jobs-to-housing ratio because airport workers wouldn’t be able to afford to live in South County."
The downtrodden proletariat indeed!
I vote no on bond issues, flyingmythbuster, because the money usually is spent on planning instead of building anything. The Great Park is being planned in excruciating detail, but El Toro International Airport is being preserved in pristine fashion so it can be opened at the drop of a hat. I'm sure you have noticed that. The anti-airport politicians may be the best friend we ever had. Turn on the lights, Vernon.
The irony is that while El-Toro is being maintained; Tustin is becoming an eyesore. The expression for the Blimp Hangar is demolition by neglect.
North county needs more park and Tustin is the perfect place for one. Nobody is talking about putting an airport there.
I suggest we agitate to have an airport there so that the anti- airport people will agitate for a park. That way we will at least have a plan for a park and as long as Larry Agran is not in charge we might even get one.
Watch out for that light, Donald, the train's a comin!
1255, the airplane lights at El Toro must be getting to you. Stay off the rail road tracks and you won't get run over. Flyingmythbuster is taking over Tustin.
1024, there are no lights at El Toro. Duh! And I would never get in the way of a high speed train.
Flying myth can have Tustin, nothing there but the old blimp hangers, which the Marines wanted to tear down.
806, yes stay off the high speed railroad tracks that run through El Toro International Airport, and keep your eyes peeled on the runways for arrival of jumbo jets from Sidney, Hong Kong, and Tokyo.
1013, that would be a huge waste of my time. Everyone with half a brain knows there will never be another plane landing at El Toro.
Are you counting the days till the caps come off at JWA?
Remember the Cargo Cult in New Guinea. Anti-El Toro International Airport NIMBYs are just like the Cargo Cult, but it's fear and hate that motivates these cultists. Keep your eye on the runways, 837. Everybody's quality of life will benefit when the airport opens.
I watch the runways under my feel every time I take off from SNA. My quality of life improved as soon as they added jet service to the Duke. Expansion will only make it better!
When the jumbo jets arrive at El Toro the pilots will pass out trinkets, candy, and cartoons to the assembled NIMBYs. Quality of life will improve when the airport opens.
The airport is already open, it's called John Wayne. El Toro's closed, or haven't you heard. Poor, close minded NIMBY's.
Trinkets, candy, and cartoons should go over big with anti-El Toro International Airport NIMBYs. They will use El Toro because it has more destinations and lower fares. Municipal El Toro will defeat county John Wayne. Good news NIMBYs, your quality of life will improve when El Toro International Airport opens.
Tustin did vote against El Toro. That means they must really want to have an airport at their Marine base instead of Irvine. With that 3,000 foot runway, they could take the general aviation aircraft out of John Wayne.
Flying Mythbuster,
it would be expensive to buy a South County NIMBY a drink as they possess two mouths.
Out of one mouth is incessant class warfare bashing Newport Beach for being evil rich bastards who should have their wealth redistributed.
Out of the other mouth, they thumb their nose at working class people from Los Angeles and The Inland Empire, claiming an airport would not create "quality jobs" and the "wrong" kind of people would live in their community. Since when is an airline pilot making over 100K a year not a quality job?
The long term "quality jobs" that the Great Pork will provide will consist mostly of leaf blowers and lawn mowers.
These NIMBYs are like Goldilocks either people are too rich or too poor for their liking. What exactly is the "just right" income level for them to actually respect someone?
With the passage of 1A, Orange County taxpayers are on the hook for High Speed Rail and we will be the LAST area to get service, if at all.
That only makes El Toro Airport look all the more appealing. Our taxes have already BUILT it, we may as well use it.
And with the passage of Proposition 1A, we'll need transportation to the train station. That's one more reason to open El Toro. I want to fly out of El Toro, not Tustin. I may use the high speed train once or twice, if they allow bicycles and automobiles on board.
Donald, everybody knows perfectly well that the only person in Orange County screaming class warfare is you. You seem to hate everybody else in OC. How disgusting you are. It's really too bad that you can't be like the rest of us in Newport Beach that exhibit some class and compassion towards others. You are pretty sad.
I'll take the train if they allow my automobile on board. We elite can't be stuck at some train station without our cars. Class warfare is practiced by the hum drum workers without a cause. Turn on the lights, Vernon.
226, if your brain was the train then it already left the station! I've read your drivel posts here for too long. There is noting elite about you. I'll bet you either stole what ever money you have or you're just a fry cook at Coco's. Class warfare is practiced by the losers that can't get their way so they blame everybody else. Choke on that, NIMBY!
If the train had a brain it would have seats big enough for me and my car. Who wants to get dumped at a station? If the train had a brain, people would use them. But El Toro International Airport is by far the best high speed train. That airport has a brain, with long low approaches over the industrial town of Aliso Viejo, jumbo jet cross runways pointing to where airplanes need to go, freeways on three sides, train tracks right through the airport to bring fuel to the airplanes and poor people to the terminals. Two pipelines pass right throuh the airport which will be available when anti-El Toro International Airport NIMBYs get a brain.
635, in case you haven't read the news lately, train ridership is up around the country, including Orange County. In case you missed it, train ridership is up 11% while airline travel continues to drop.
And admit it, even if the train took your precious car your giant ego still wouldn't fit in it, now would it?
The Duke has three freeways running right next to it, plenty of fuel tanks that can be used (unlike the fuel lines at El Toro) and nice runways pointing to where airplanes need to go. And lets not forget those long low approaches over the industrial towns of Tustin and San Ana.
Now that's an airport with a brain, too bad you don't have one.
Hey, The Wizard of Oz is on this week, maybe the Wizard will give you a brain! If not we'll just release the flying monkeys on you.
822: John Wayne Airport is bursting at the seams, and its airplanes take off south where they don't want to go. We're on the west coast of the United States you know. That's why we need to open El Toro International Airport which has runways pointing north and east. I might take the train once or twice if they allow me to take my automobile. They tell me trains are old technology with steel wheels banging on steel rails. Should we subsidize buggy whips too? Turn on the lights, Vernon. I'm ready for my flight out of El Toro International Airport. Now, that's high class travel we can support. No buggy whips for me.
234, once again it's re-education for you. Planes take off INTO the prevailing wind no matter where they need to go. Orange County's prevailing wind typically comes from the south west so that's where the runways are pointed.
El Toro's east facing runway is up hill, into rising terrain with a tail wind. Hence it cannot be used for fully loaded planes.
The Duke is not bursting at the seams, as you claim. In fact it's not even operating near capacity. In case you haven't heard, usage is down again last month.
On the other hand, train ridership is up.
You say you might take a train if you could take your car. When was the last time you took your car on a plane? How about NEVER! Who ever is telling you trains are old technology obviously hasn't been near one since the steam engine days. Trains are very modern, comfortable and quieter than a jet.
As for your whips, if that's what you're into, who am I to judge. Just keep it behind closed doors with those reach arounds I hear you enjoy.
Keep those lights on at SNA, Vern, 234 wants to fly someplace where he can get whipped!
812: Well, well, well, the same pack of stuff comes back. There isn't a fully loaded commercial transport airplane that can't take off uphill into the mountains, but you just repeat the same old lies. You can't get away with that on this website. El Toro is unique among southern California airports because it is located in a calm valley with long low straight in approaches over the industrial town of Aliso Viejo and departures east and north in the direction airplanes want to go. The president takes his car along when he flies. For a train ride I'll want my car along with me. That's the only way to ride the train. Otherwise it's buggy whips for you but not or me. Turn on the lights at El Toro, Vernon. We've got planes to catch.
326, the only planes you'll ever catch are out of SNA, LAX or ONT. Better get used to that. The presidential limo rides in an Air Force transport, that takes off INTO the wind, never down wind.
You really need to do some homework on flying characteristics. But then, the NIMBY El Toro goons were never into honest facts, now were they?
I have to go now, my flight leaves the Duke real soon. You know I can see my house during take offs? How cool is that?
Well, the train nut is back who sometimes calls himself the airplane nut. Since you love John Wayne Airport so much maybe you can tell how they handle cross wind takeoffs at that airport. It doesn't have fuel-saving cross runways, you know. And since you seem to love trains, maybe you could look up how much it costs to haul each one of those subsidized passengers. I've been told that each person using the Bay Area Rapid Transit could be driven in a chauffeured limousine for the money going to BART. As Rush Limbaugh says, it's the intent that counts with liberals. Turn on the lights, Vernon. El Toro is crying for customers.
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