Our campaign to re-educate Orange County on the merits of El Toro International Airport is showing some promise. Everyone knows The Great Park will NEVER be built. They all know Lennar is near extinction. Everyone also knows we are in a recession where gas prices are up and property values are down.
People are starting to catch on that Larry Agran manipulated their emotions and the facts are that El Toro International Airport has tremendous potential as an economic catalyst to benefit ALL of us.
El Toro will create thousands of jobs.
El Toro will cause a rise in demand for housing in Orange County and thus raise property values.
El Toro will have billions of dollars in annual economic output.
El Toro will offer lots of flights with competitive fares.
El Toro will take many cars off the road that would otherwise be clogging the freeways en route to LAX and Ontario.
El Toro will save drivers on fuel costs, not to mention wear and tear since it is convenient and close to home.
El Toro will provide local manufacturers additional time to create their products rather than being rushed to meet an earlier shipping deadline for LAX bound cargo.
Since most of us have come to the realization how great El Toro will truly be, we now find ourselves in a spirited discussion as to which way should the airplanes take off.
Should we have cross runways?
Should we have parallel runways?
Shall we take off to the north, the south, the east, the west, or all of the above?
Since the airport configuration is the only real objection for some people to overcome to their opposition to El Toro International Airport, let's all collaborate and create an airport that can best serve the needs of Orange County.
46 comments:
Vernon, your Orange County re-education essay is enlightening and progressive. Your list of benefits is impressive and reminds me that El Toro clearly was undersold while the fear merchants were peddling fear, class warfare, and hate. There never was a need to take off to the west, but if Woodbridge is removed that could happen, although it is not needed. The beauty of El Toro is that it is a turnkey airport designed and built by the Navy and it is ready to go. There is no need to redesign this fine airport which opponents spent much time criticizing. They are against everything so we must engage them headon, using their criticisms as assets, which really infuriates them. But that's ok. Nobody ever said brainwashed opponents are rational.
Vern/Donald:
Skip the re-education and just stick to being pretentious jackass(es). El Toro is as dead as your brains, and will remain as such. The Duke, named for the NIMBY Beach self-aggrandized "elite", will continue to be the one and only airport in the OC . Fantasies are fun, but you two are boring.
Turn off the lights, no one is listening.
1158, Rave on, Rave on. The only ones listening are your friends and enemies. El Toro International Airport already is built, and all we have to do is turn on the lights. Open your hearts and minds to re-education. No more NIMBYs and BANANAs.
The only ones listening are my friends and enemies? I guess that covers just about everyone.
The only ones listening to you are the voices in your head. And even they know that El Tor will never, ever be an airport.
359 is living in a bucolic dream world when the facts are the airport already is built on its pefect natural site. But facts never mattered much to opponents of El Toro International Airport. Turn on the lights, Vernon.
Nice bit of spin doctoring on this one, Vern, but I after reading it I see you have backed yourself into a corner. Beyond the obvious fantasy that El Toro will ever be an airport, I see from the recent “spirited discussion” about landing and departures, crossed or parallel runways, etc., you have come to realize that the existing runways at El Toro are useless, unusable and for the most part unsafe. So now we have your so-called “airport” with no runways, no terminals, no jet ways, no control tower, baggage handling, food concessions, taxi stand, hell not even a Hari Krishna in sight to beg money from the elite. So lacking every single amenity that an airport requires to exist, you have finally confessed that there is NO airport at El Toro. Thank you, about time you came to your senses. Apparently the one who really needs reeducating is Donald.
Turn out the lights Donald, even Vern now agrees there is no airport anywhere to be found at El Toro. Fantasy once again meets reality. And for you, it’s a painful meeting once again.
The spirited discussion about El Toro International Airport is that opponents are politically naive. Orange County suffers from too many houses and too few jobs. Opening the airport at El Toro will solve this crisis and bring lower prices, more flights, and lower fares. Turn on the lights, Vernon. The runways are perfect and 1156 knows it. He's just trying to pull a Griffin on us.
The spirited discussion about El Toro International Airport is that proponents are self-serving NIMBYs who would gladlty destroy every other city in the county so that NIMBY Beach can rid themselves of convenient, crowd-free John Wayne airport. Fortunately, the politically astute voters of these elite and intelligent cities saw though the lies, deceit and phony economics preomised by the pro-airport crwod, and decided that if you are dumb enough to buy (or inherit) a house underneath the JWA flight paths then you have no right to complain about it. Stupid is as stupid does.
The lights are out Vern, and they shall stay that way because much like the runways, terminals and baggage claim, El Toro has no lights either. Keep reeducating Donald, he still does get it.
247 and 1156 may be unaware that the FAA approved El Toro International Airport for 4 million annual passengers effective immediately. What part of that didn't you brainwashed opponents get? Turn on the lights, Vernon. I've got a plane to catch at El Toro, and I'll bring some elite friends too. The plebeian RINOs need jobs.
Once again Donald, why spend billions for 4 MAP when we can get that out of The Duke by simply getting rid of nasty, silly passenger caps FOR FREE? Oh, those caps are going away soon anyway, aren't they? Oh well, problem solved.
BTW, you and your elite friends should look out for the coyotes while you're waiting in those empty fields awaiting for the jets that will never arrive. Enjoy your stay, maybe catch a ride on the balloon, since that's the only man made object leaving the ground out of El Toro.
There is BARELY any "Great Pork". It has FAILED.
The runways at El Toro are STILL intact. Only 2% of them were removed before the runway crusher took their toys and went home.
I propose keeping 16 and 34 for flights while 7 and 25 should just be used for taxiways.
247 you are a typical brainwashed NIMBY who suffers from delusional paranoia and neurosis.
El Toro would not destroy anyone's quality of life. It would only destroy your dream to expand John Wayne, because you are simply a jealous peasant who hates Newport Beach.
Yes, the FAA approved El Toro for 4 MAP immediately, and we always knew we could squeeze 16 MAP into it without construction. Approval is for takeoffs on 7 and 34. Get that through your skulls, NIMBYs. Other airport approaches will go back to the days when El Toro had hundreds of flights a day. Once again, turn on the lights, Vernon. I've got a plane to catch at El Toro.
1156 you are clueless. Vernon never admitted the runways are useless. He is asking which way should the planes takeoff. This would not be possible if the runways were useless. DUH!
PS How about them Angels! LOL!
No one wants to redesign El Toro International Airport now that it is built and approved. Takeoffs are 60% on runway 7 and 40% on runway 34. Of course the runways are not useless. They are used for takeoffs and landings. Turn on the lights, Vernon. I would like to go out on a redeye.
If I had to bet on OJ finding the real killer or seeing an airport built at El Toro, I'd put my money on OJ.
Just keep living the NIMBY Beach fantasy, because like the Angels, lost.
The Angels already have brought good luck to El Toro International Airport because they are the Los Angeles Angels. The airport does not have to be built because it already is built. Turn on the lights, Vernon.
Straight from the 10/7/08 Wall Street Journal. Airports across the country, including Ontario, are suffering. Thanks God the OC averted a multi-billion dollar white elephant by not building unneeded, unwanted and unsafe El Toro. Read 'em and weep, boys.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122333841064709809.html?mod=dist_smartbrief
At 8:45 a.m. last Friday, the drop-off curb and the halls of Terminal 2 at Ontario International Airport in California were virtually empty. Twenty security screeners stood ready to check only a handful of passengers. "It's been this way since JetBlue left," said one Transportation Security Administration screener.
Ontario, like many airports across the country, is suddenly struggling. JetBlue Airways Corp. pulled out of Ontario last month. ExpressJet Airlines Inc. shut down its independent operation, too. Other airlines have reduced their flights to the airport serving the inland side of Los Angeles. Even the biggest airline at Ontario, Southwest Airlines Co., has cut flights. Of 24 gates at the airport, 10 are now empty. Ontario used to have non-stop flights to 36 cities; now it has only 17.
This loss of passengers is creating a vicious economic spiral that is gripping airports across the country. At a time when airports have taken increasing roles in passenger comfort and care because of the service slide of airlines, today's financial pressures are forcing major service reductions and financial strains.
The flight cuts will make the airport more expensive for airlines. Many airports set landing fees and terminal rents charged to airlines based on debt payments and operating costs. When the number of passengers is reduced, costs per passenger go up. Flights become less profitable, and airlines reduce schedules more, potentially driving per-passenger costs even higher. Cash-strapped airports will likely also scale back on upkeep and building improvements. Facing reduced foot traffic -- and sales -- struggling airport shops and restaurants may close.
"When airlines cut back, unless the airport is able to cut operating costs, the costs to airlines almost always go up," says Bob Hazel, a partner at consultancy Oliver Wyman, a unit of Marsh & McLennan Cos.
Improvement projects have been shelved in Atlanta, Phoenix, Oakland and Las Vegas. A new terminal just opened at Detroit Metropolitan Airport and an Oct. 1 increase in fees to airlines has been put on hold while the airport tries to cut more costs, fearing the loss of airline service. The airport has to the end of this month to decide on a budget; it has already frozen salaries, imposed a hiring freeze and required appointed staff to contribute more to the cost of their health care.
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Pittsburgh International Airport has sealed off parts of its terminal. A huge terminal was built for 30 million passengers a year, but peaked at 21 million and now is down to eight million or nine million a year. Over several years, US Airways Group Inc. has dropped to fewer than 60 flights a day in Pittsburgh, from 542 flights per day. Allegheny County, which runs the airport, transferred $19.9 million in state gambling money to its airport authority in the past year to support the airport.
Airports used to be sleepy, stable businesses, a quasi-governmental function with little competition or turmoil. Airports set fees to cover their costs, and the fees were generally low enough not to affect airline flight-schedule decisions. Parking fees, rents from retailers and federal grants, along with a per-passenger tax levied directly on tickets that is now up to $4.50, often covered most airport costs.
In recent years, airports have had to shoulder more of the burden of taking care of passengers. Fully booked flights and long delays mean airports have to provide larger seating areas at gates, bathrooms and more services. Airlines have increasingly looked to airports to do everything from real-estate design and planning to the provision of cots, blankets and toiletries to distressed customers.
"The travel experience is sufficiently unpleasant that I do think the traveling public looks to airports to provide services that airlines no longer provide, and that costs money," says Mr. Hazel. He says airports need to boost efficiency and employ more private-sector cost-cutting of their own. Airport procurement, for example, often gets bogged down in city bureaucracy and isn't as cost-effective as it could be. "Lean" techniques for operations often employed by business could improve airline finances.
At Ontario, Los Angeles built two new terminals, spending $270 million to be able to handle 10 million passengers per year, and optimistically left room between the two for a third big building. The airport, seen as congestion relief for over-crowded Los Angeles International Airport, made it to about seven million passengers per year the past three years, but passenger traffic in August was down 18% and airline flight cuts this fall will trigger an even faster decline. The number of seats next month will be down by nearly one-third compared with a year earlier.
At a sunglasses retail store in one of the two terminals, a clerk said the shop used to make an average of 20 sales a day. Now, only five to seven customers make purchases daily. Some stores and restaurants in the two terminals have closed.
Many airports are trying to boost revenue by exploring ways to install more advertising and spruce up parking. At Oakland International Airport, for example, a new system was installed in parking lots allowing travelers to get in and out simply by swiping a credit card. Making it easier to use parking garages may draw patrons away from off-airport parking, said Steve Grossman, aviation director for the Port of Oakland. Oakland is also looking at offering reserved close-in parking spaces, at premium prices, and possibly a "frequent parker" rewards program to encourage use of airport parking facilities.
[The departures curb at Ontario International Airport.] Associated Press
The departures curb at Ontario International Airport.
Increased parking and concession revenue can keep landing fees and rents charged to airlines lower. Under enormous financial pressures from the high cost of jet fuel, airlines have grown increasingly sensitive to airport costs. On average, the landing fees and rents charged airlines typically amount to about $6 to $9 per passenger, but some new terminals and expansions have raised costs at some airports to $15 to $20 per passenger. Charging $10 more per passenger can turn profitable airline flights into money-losers if there aren't lots of high-fare business passengers on board.
Southwest and other carriers say fuel cost and flight profitability are the biggest drivers influencing decisions on where to eliminate flights, but airport costs are becoming an increasingly important factor. "As competitors pull out, the denominator shrinks and our share of the costs increases over time," says Bob Jordan, Southwest's executive vice president of strategy and planning.
In Ontario, higher concession sales and traffic growth last year actually led to a slight reduction in fees when the airport last adjusted, according to Gina Marie Lindsey, executive director of Los Angeles World Airports, the city agency that runs LAX and Ontario. But that will soon change. This year's fee adjustment, she said, "will not be such a happy one."
Airport staff are trying to cut costs, recognizing that higher prices could lead to even bigger airline schedule cuts. "We do need to avoid getting into that spiral because you can price an airport into being non-competitive," Ms. Lindsey said.
The city is studying whether funds from LAX might have to be used to supplement Ontario's budget. The Federal Aviation Administration does allow one airport to support another financially to relieve congestion, but LAX is facing its own massive modernization program that will be expensive, and it is already battling with airlines over terminal rents.
Asked if the big airport would have to bail out Ontario, Ms. Lindsey said, "I sure hope not."
Wow that's some article from the Wall Street Journal, but I wouldn't use it as an authority on the approved, safe, and needed El Toro International Airport. Opening El Toro costs nothing, because the airport already is built. The FAA approved it for 4 million annual passengers as is, and we know we can squeeze 16 MAP into it without any construction. John Wayne Airport is bursting at the seams, so we must look to El Toro to meet our aviation needs. Houses are white elephants. We need 90,000 jobs and $1.5 billion yearly production. Turn on the lights, Vernon.
Don't fool your self NIMBYs, there is not airport in El Toro.
El Toro: World's only airport with no passenger service, no cargo service, no terminals, no jetways, no employees, no passengers, no control tower, no parking, no Starbucks, no overhead airspace easements, no chance of any of this ever changing, yet the NIMBYs of Newport still cling to their fantasy of a complete "turnkey" airport.
Go ahead an turn on the lights Vern. Oops, sorry, no lights there either.
Anti-El Toro International Aiport people cling to the fantasy that there must be easements, cargo flights, employees, jetways, and Starbucks before this turnkey airport can be opened. Such is the dreamworld opponents live in. Turn on the lights, Vernon.
NIMBY Beach just clings to the fantasy. The Duke is and will be the only commercial airport in the OC, flying over the heads of the self-proclaimed elite every single day ad infinitum.
Class warfare will get you nowhere. The elite always win, and the better airport will be reopened. Turn on the lights at El Toro International Airport, Vernon.
Dear 1156, you are dreaming. El Toro International Airport has plenty of runways, tarmac, and hangars. Why don't you go out there and see for yourself rather than sucking on the TCE laced Kool Aid that Irvine has been feeding you.
Dear 940, Los Angeles can add all those things to El Toro. On the other hand, it would cost over 4.5 billion to add a second runway to John Wayne. Therefore, it makes more sense financially to increase air capacity for Orange County by re-opening El Toro International Airport.
Small problem, Vernon. How can you re-open an airport that was never open? There never has been, nor will there ever be, an El Toro International Airport. More NIMBY fantasy.
Fantasy, my foot. The airport was open until 1999. Heavily loaded commercial airlines flew in and out of there on June 4 and 5, 1999. Turn on the lights, Vernon. Re-open El Toro International Airport.
So sorry, 1153, those planes were empty. Nice try, though. Keep drinking the Kool Aid, it seems to be making you more nuts that you already were. Remember, that was part of the problem of the noise tests, the planes were EMPTY, no ballast, no passengers, no cargo, just a little fuel to run the silly tests.
It's necessary to rain on your parade, 608, in order to get the truth out. Those planes were heavily loaded to represent various stage lengths of short, medium, long-haul, and international service. Actual weights ranged from 115,000 pounds to 720,000 pounds. You must have obtained your infomation from a liar. Facts just seem to drive NIMBYs crazy. "just a little fuel to run the silly tests." ha ha ha
Lets all forget it as the airport is a dead issue that will never fly.
We must never forget the most recent 50 flights in and out of El Toro International Airport. They proved the airport is there and is ready for the jumbo jets. And nobody is in the noise zone.
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If only elephants could fly..............................................................
nobody is in the noise zone. And nobody is in the noise zone.
If only elephants could fly..............................................................
And your point IS....?
My point is El Toro will never fly. What's your point?
El Toro International Airport is a turnkey airport which the city of Irvine can open now that it is part of its city. The last 50 flights in 1999 proved it is a good airport. It was approved by the FAA. It's time to turn on the lights at El Toro, and nobody, absolutely nobody, is in the noise zone.
There is no such thing as a turnkey airport. No certification, no anything. Not to mention Irvine will NEVER allow it. Why are you such an idiot?
If there is no such thing as a turnkey airport why are the NIMBYs recommending use of March, George, and Norton? Those are all military bases along with El Toro. If they can be put to use, so can El Toro.
217, you idiot, March is an active airbase and there has been much planning on adding passenger service to it ever since it went from being a SAC base to a Reserve base.
Anti-El Toro International Airport NIMBYs even had a pipe dream of building a tunnel under the mountains to get to March Air Force Base, now a reserve base, where they thought they could sneak in civilian transport airplanes. The best solution to Orange County's airport problem, by far, is to open El Toro International Airport which already has freeways on three sides, oil piplines, and high speed rail tracks running right through the airport. Turn on the lights, Vernon. I want to catch a redeye to Washington for the inauguration of John McCain, president. Vote no on 1A and 10. Any more no's or even a yes?
814, you dreamer, the Navy has steadfastly said no to using the fule lines at El Toro, there is NO high speed rail line ANYWHERE in Orange County, and I only count two freeways next to El Toro. The third is a Toll road, not a FREE way. Duh!
920, the toll road is free to people with money, such as Cota de Caza. One of the pipelines is private. The Navy will come around with its pipeline. Turn on the lights, Vernon. Support your local international airport.
920, you lose again:
A freeway is legally defined by the federal Manual on Uniform Traffic Control as a divided highway with control of access by grade separation, interchanges and blocking access from driveways and adjoining properties. The way is free in the sense of freedom of movement not in how it's financed.
In North America, high speed rail (the tracks themselves) is defined as Class 1 heavy CWR rail that is able to sustain heavy freight movements at normal track speed (usually 55 mph) and/or high speed tilting trains like the Acela for the eastern corridor.
This is to avoid the prohibitive trackbed preparation costs the TGV and other european HSR lines have. The Acela runs on the upgraded version of conventional rail left behind by the PRR between New York and Washington; not on extremely precise LHV lines like in France.
Albeit, a loose definition, but one designed to sell the concept here without running up the costs.
Yes, of course the toll road is a freeway. You only pay when you use it, instead of with every tank of gas for going to the grocery store. So we nailed 940 on that one, and there are freeways on three sides of El Toro International Airport, fuel pipelines, and high speed trains right through the airport. Turn on the lights, Vernon. I'll fly with flyingmythbuster.
806, if you're going to fly with the myth it will have to be out of our beloved SNA. Keep the lights on at SNA, Vernon, 806 has a flight to catch!
There you are promoting class warfare and environmental injustice. We know El Toro International Airport has almost perfect equity and parity. No one, absolutely no one, is in the noise zone at El Toro International Airport. We can turn on the lights at El Toro International Airport. Then everybody will love each other again.
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